Benazir Bhutto
claims Opposition majority, states Coalition Terms
Special
SAT Report
WASHINGTON:
PPP Leader Benazir Bhutto on Sunday night claimed the Opposition
parties had 173 votes and PPP would vote for a MMA prime minister
but not join a MMA government formally and would sit on the Opposition
benches.
Speaking
to reporters at a dinner hosted by Akbar S. Khawaja, a community
activist, Benazir 
said
talks were going on between PPP and other parties but she stressed
that if there was any positive development, "the ARD would
be taken into confidence immediately."
She
indicated that there may have crept up some mis-communications
between the ARD partners but those have now been removed and "we
have a clear understanding on all issues."
Benazir
said the PPP was ready to "Swap Votes" with the MMA
but PPP would not formally join a MMA Government, as the MMA is
also not prepared to join a PPP Government.
"We
have been promised the Senate Chairmanship and House speakership
in return for our votes for Maulana Fazlur Rehman to become Leader
of the House. We will place our votes at the disposal of Nawabzada
Nasrullah Khan who can use them for any leader he wants,"
she clarified.
The
PPP leader said it was the right of the PPP to nominate any of
its leaders for the posts of Senate chairman and Speaker of the
House, once an agreement was signed with MMA to swap votes. "They
should have no objections on any personalities."
She
maintained that the Opposition had the numbers but it would be
a one vote majority which could be taken away by the government
at any time. The Parliament is hung, in the real meaning of the
word.
She
was confident that the opposition would be able to demonstrate
its strength on the floor of the house, but it was less easy to
do so outside. She also maintained that provincial governments
could not be set up unless the situation at the centre became
clear.
Here
is the full transcript of the interview with Ms Bhutto, recorded
in Washington late Sunday night.
Q:
What negotiations are you involved in right now?
BB:
We have an alliance with ARD and some of the member parties of
ARD, including the MMA, are also members of the All Parties Conference
(APC). The collective vote commanded by the three ARD parties
is 173. We have the majority, but I should point out that with
the switch of one vote from this alliance could create difficulties
for the government formed by the alliance. I would like to draw
a clear distinction here between “vote swap” and “government.”
The MMA is not willing to form a government with PPP and the PPP
is not willing to form a government with MMA. This is a delicate
situation, because while on the face of it, the opposition parties
have a majority, given the unwillingness of the two major components
of this alliance to sit together in the same government makes
the situation fragile. Keeping this situation in view, we have
also held negotiations with PML(Q). And we have also talked to
the government. We are trying to work for the emergence of a situation
which should guarantee the survival of the (National) Assembly.
The negotiations that we have held with the government have revolved
around the democratisation of Pakistan, human rights in Pakistan
and welfare of the people of Pakistan.
Q:
So you are not cutting a deal outside the ARD or with the government?
BB:
No, we would like to keep the ARD, but first of all, we need to
have an understanding with the government. Once we have an understanding
with them, then we can go to the ARD.
Q:
Have there been any concrete proposals made by the government
to you on any of the major issues?
BB:
There have been discussions on the issues of the political prisoners,
the withdrawal of the cases and so on. And there has been progress
on some of the issues and some of the issues are … well,
there has been progress on some of the issues. Yes.
Q:
And the ARD leadership is aware of what you are doing with the
government?
BB:
They are aware that we are in contact with the government and
as soon as there is a positive development, then we would go to
the ARD and explain the situation. But we need a positive development.
It is one thing to agree generally: it is another thing to move
forward. So we need to move forward.
Q:
And how much time do you think, how much longer do you think you
will keep talking?
BB:
Well, this the regime has to decide. If I had been the Prime Minister
of the country and I had started the process, I would move forward
with it. I can only speak for myself. I am unable to speak for
the other parties involved.
Q:
Do you think it is right for the government to hold the Assembly
hostage to an agreement before calling the session?
BB:
That I don’t know, what the situation back home is.
Q:
Why are they not calling the session and letting the Assembly
decide?
BB:
I understand, I understand, I could be wrong. I can give you an
understanding that is a charitable understanding and then I could
give you an uncharitable suspicion. The charitable understanding
is that there is a hung parliament and so the government is delaying
the calling of the Assembly until there is some kind of an indication
that either the PML and the PPP are together or the PML and the
MMA are together or the PML and all the parties are together.
That is a charitable explanation. The uncharitable explanation
is that they need the delay to do some horse-trading. But to be
charitable, at the moment the People’s Party and its allies,
I mean the joint opposition, allies is the wrong term, the joint
opposition has 173 votes, which is the exact number needed to
elect the Leader of the House and to elect the Speaker. But the
switch of one vote could change that equation. The PML(Q) on the
other hand have calculations of 135.
Q:
Normally, in democracies, the majority party or coalition demonstrates
its numbers and then the government is obliged to call them to
form a government. Is there any plan to demonstrate your numbers?
BB:
No there is no plan to demonstrate the numbers. It is easier for
us to demonstrate them in the parliament rather than outside the
parliament. The opposition has these numbers and there are certain
draft agreements also circulating amongst them. Obviously, these
draft agreements have to reach a conclusion before one can move
forward from this end. But whatever the line is, the numbers can
be very easily calculated. We all know who are lined in the opposition:
the PPP, the PML(N), the MMA, the BNP, the JWP. These are easy
to calculate and we also know the people who are with the King’s
party, so it is easy to calculate. Now if they say that it is
a hung parliament, then there have to be elections within three
months under the constitution. Obviously another election within
three months …
Q:
New elections without calling a session?
BB:
No, no, you have to call a session. Once you call a session and
the session is deadlocked, what next?
Q:
So the session has to be called?
BB:
The session can be called. That is for the opposition. I mean
I am far away. I am unable to say this. It is for the ARD and
all the people to discuss, but the way I see it from a distance,
that there is a hung parliament, that the opposition has a majority,
but it is a one vote majority.
Q:
Are you worried about your own party’s unity?
BB:
No, I am not worried about the unity of the party. I have confidence
that the members who have been elected are honourable and they
will show integrity of character. And I expect them to stand with
the party. I know different people may have different recommendations
to make, but by the end of the day everybody stands by the party.
And that is the proper political behaviour. That is what I expect
of my colleagues and I know that my colleagues will live up to
my expectations.
Q:
It is being said that they should let the provincial governments
come into being without the National Assembly being convened?
What are your views on this?
BB:
This may be probably easier for them. In the Frontier Province,
undoubtedly MMA is the majority party. And in the Punjab, undoubtedly
PML(Q) is the majority party. There may be problems in Sindh and
Balochistan because in these two provinces there will have to
be alliances that make the government. And unless the alliances
are clear in the centre, the alliances will be missing the provinces.
You could end up with three deadlocked assemblies, one at the
top, two at the bottom, unless there is a change the political
equation.
Q:
What is the situation in Sindh?
BB:
In Sindh, the Sindh Pakistan People’s Party has almost a
majority and we are talking to different political parties to
try and gain a majority. But let us face it, Sindh is a pretty
volatile province to govern without support from the centre.
Q:
Last question. Are you superstitious?
BB:
Why, yes.
Q:
I ask because the tape on which I am recording this interview
is the same tape on which I recorded Gen. Musharraf on his last
visit to the United States. Your voice now overrides that of Gen.
Musharraf on this tape.
BB
(laughs): I think that is a very good omen.
