'It Would be a Tragedy
if Something Happens to Musharraf': Jugnu Mohsin
By
Sharmeen Obaid
LAHORE:
Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf is molded in the staunch,
authoritarian traditions of the military, yet has a progressive,
open-minded worldview. He is at once a dyed-in-the-wool soldier
and a "regular, liberal guy," says Jugnu Mohsin, publisher
of The Friday Times, one of Pakistan's leading liberal
newspapers.
In
an interview with Frontline/World, she says Pakistan
is struggling to reconcile the security-obsessed and insular worldview
of the Pakistani army with the openness and transparency demanded
by the age of globalization.
Musharraf "could do better,"
in this regard, Mohsin says, principally by scaling back the military's
role in government. But, she maintains, "... it would be
tragic for Pakistan if at this juncture he wasn't there to lead
us. I think he must lead us to the other side ... to the safe
side."
Mohsin explores the personal contradictions
of Musharraf the man as a way to understand the current contradictions
in Pakistani policy. Excerpts from the interview:
Do
you think peace is a reality with India?
I think peace is now more of a possibility
than it has ever been.
Do
you think the people of Pakistan are looking forward to peace?
Unequivocally, absolutely, yes. They
really are. We're all looking forward to peace. And this is a
great myth that has been ... manufactured over the years -- that
we're hell-bent on fighting this thousand-year war with India,
and we wouldn't rest till we regain Kashmir and all the rest of
it. While the people of this country feel that injustice has been
committed and the rights of the Kashmiri people have not been
taken into account, I think the sentiment for peace is overwhelming.
Why
now? Why is President Musharraf trying to make amends?
Well, I think there was an inevitability
about what's happening in Pakistan. ... I think that events post-9/11
have sort of telescoped everything and shortened the time frame
and increased the urgency of many, many things that would have
happened in the natural course of things over some years, and
with plenty of hiccups and lots of heartache.
I think I may be being very unconventional
here, but I'll say to you: 9/11 has been very good for Pakistan.
It's been good for Pakistan because suddenly, overnight, we had
to choose which way we want to go. And I think that the good thing
is that those who run the country, the "establishment,"
which is a euphemism for the Pakistan army ... felt that perhaps
... they could carry on supporting the Taliban while wishing to
be friends with the West, while negotiating loans with the IMF,
while doing business with the World Bank, while talking peace
with India, while stoking the Kashmir jihad.
Those were mutually contradictory
things, and 9/11 made them choose: Which way do you want to go?
Are you with us or are you against us? Although I don't approve
of George Bush's "with us or against us" philosophy
... for Pakistan it translated into something positive.
And I think that General Musharraf
seized the opportunity. He was decisive; he didn't lose any time;
he didn't dillydally; he didn't do "ifs" and "buts"
or this and that. Because that would have cost Pakistan, it really
would have. And so the state decided to dump the Taliban ... not
a moment too soon. And they didn't make the link at that time
-- that ... jihadis are jihadis are jihadis. Whether they're Taliban
jihadis or Kashmiri jihadis, they're all of a certain bent of
mind and ... they have a certain worldview. And so I think it
was inevitable that following the Pakistan army's 180-degree turn
on Afghanistan, it would have to do something similar on Kashmir
and would also ... talk peace with India. ... It has worked out
well for Pakistan. Because we've seen our reserves increasing
very, very substantially. We've seen our economy picking up. We've
seen real estate prices, stock exchange prices, generally confidence
returning to Pakistan. And I think this is all because Pakistan's
establishment, led by General Musharraf, has aligned itself unequivocally
with the global community.
What
kind of repercussions do you think nuclear proliferation would
have on Pakistan?
Well, I think it's too early to say.
But I do think that the nuclear proliferation fiasco that has
recently ... hit the headlines all over the world will have serious
repercussions for Pakistan. I think that it's in the interest
of the Pakistani state also to make sure that something like this
doesn't ever happen again.
Do
you think that these Kashmiri freedom fighters -- are they just
freedom fighters or do they have a religious agenda as well?
Well, as I said earlier, I think
the jihadis are jihadis are jihadis. And it doesn't matter what
their cause is. I think if you're interested in the freedom of
a particular area, then the people of that country or that area
should be free to choose how they want to live. But the jihadis
will impose their own brand of life, religion, society, culture,
everything on us. And certainly nobody is asking 50 percent of
the population -- the women -- [about] that scheme of things.
How
important is people-to-people contact across the border with Indians
... for peace? Do you think that with these new bus/train links,
that more people coming across the border, are actually going
to help the everyday Pakistani to turn around and tell the militants
that they are not enemies across the Line of Control?
I think it is absolutely crucial
because it clears away the cobwebs. It re-establishes links that
have been there for thousands of years and have not been there
for fifty years. Fifty years is nothing in the life of nations,
you know. The problem is that the Indo-Pakistan subcontinent is
woven with the threads of an interdependent culture, which was
a very attractive and beautiful composite culture. And it was
made of Hindi verve, Persian finesse and lots of vigor from Central
Asia. And it was a very beautiful thing and you find a lot of
nostalgia for it, here as well as across the border in India.
And we only have an opportunity to express our affection for each
other and our feelings for each other, apart from what the states
may feel. I think it becomes quite emotional and becomes very
touching. And I think this is the healing touch which we need.
In
terms of President Musharraf, do you think ... the assassination
attempts were somewhat linked to his policies or his offer of
friendship to India in any way?
I don't think it's linked to his
offer of friendship to India. But if you see Musharraf's policies
in a totality ... I think that what he is up against is a group
of people who have Pakistan going down the route it was going
down pre-9/11. The jihadis really had a free hand, both in Afghanistan,
Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, and across the Line of Control
in Kashmir. And sometimes, I think, across the international borders
in India, as in the storming of the Indian parliament. And various
other ... adventures which were very costly for the Pakistani
state. But I think at that time, there wasn't the will to tackle
these issues. I think, to give General Musharraf credit, he did
see the opportunity and in a way he proved his liberal credentials
and his credentials as a modern pragmatic man by saying that he
would not further jeopardize the security of his country by following
the adventurous policies that had laid us low.
Do
you think that the policies of President Musharraf have changed
in the last month or so because ... he feels his life ... has
been in jeopardy? Because he wants to make a difference?
You know, I once interviewed him
and we were talking about physical courage ... because he comes
from the SSG unit of the Pakistan army, which is the Special Services
Group, a commando unit. So he's essentially at heart a commando.
... My impression is that he doesn't shy away from danger; in
fact, he relishes it a bit. But I think that he is also quite
fatalistic in some ways ... when your time comes, your time comes.
And a believer can do nothing about it. So you live your life
to the full and try and do whatever you can.
Do
you think Musharraf is in a very tough position right now? Do
you think anyone else would have been able to do a better job
or do you think he's doing the best he can, given the circumstances?
Well, you know, when I used to be
in school and my report used to come home every year ... on it
was the perennial remark "could do better." ... And
I think if I had to give General Musharraf a report card, I would
write "could do better" on it, year after year. Yeah,
he could do better.
The thing is that I think he is a
sort of a liberal, regular guy. I have a great deal of admiration
for his mother, who has been a career woman all her life. She
has worn a sari in Pakistan, and in an Islamic state, a sari is
seen an emblem of ... India, Hinduism ... I mean she's quite brave
and open about it.
Then
the other thing which I think is significant is that he spent
many of his formative childhood years in Turkey. And he once made
a "mistake" of saying to the press that he thought that
Mustafa Kamal Pasha [the founder of the modern secular Turkish
Republic], otherwise known as Ataturk, was his hero. Of course
he had to eat his words after that. But I do think that in his
heart he is a liberal person. His raised his children, for example,
very well. Both kids have married of their own choice, which is
wonderful in this country of arranged marriages, you know.
He
has a very supportive wife; they have a good relationship. I think
that he has respect for women and I think that is reflective of
how he has brought up his daughter. She's a professional; she's
an architect; she lives in Karachi; she is accessible. All of
these things, I don't know how you feel about this, Sharpen, but
as a woman these things are [more] telling sometimes than where
you were educated or what degree you have ... what your traditional
background is. I think these things are the making of a person.
Also, [Musharraf] has risen through
the army not because he is a Punjabi connected to some influential
clan, but on merit. Because he's from ... what we call an Urdu-speaking
background, i.e., the son of migrants from India. And he didn't
have a constituency to speak of. But he rose through the ranks
because he was competent. ...
I think temperamentally he is in
line with the modern world ... and that could be a blessing for
Pakistan. Of course, he's a dyed-in-the-wool soldier also and
that's where the contradiction lies. ... He was molded in the
ethos of the Pakistan army. So now he has to reconcile his personal
temperament as a regular guy, as a liberal man who has very, very
strong role models of women in his family, who has treated his
daughter on par with his son. ... On the other [hand], he's a
dyed-in-the-wool soldier. So he has to reconcile this contradiction
within himself.
Also, the requirement of the age
is reasonableness, integration, globalization, economic openness,
right? And on the other hand is the ethos of the establishment,
which is ... security-obsessed and inward-looking and sort of
based on [a] cold war system, where things were very compartmentalized.
Now ... the world is in flux. And that is why we see so many contradictions
in Pakistan's foreign policy.
A
number of people feel [Musharraf] has become very unpopular recently.
To what do you attribute that? Do you think it is unfair for people
to be disillusioned by him?
I think he's unpopular principally
with the fundamentalists, who see Pakistan changing course, and
they can't take it because it is not part of their worldview at
all. ... For them, it's a nightmare come true -- [that] Pakistan
could be an open, liberal, outward-looking, internationally integrated
society. Horror, horror, right? But we live for the day that it
will be so.
But he may be unpopular also with
members of his rank and file who ... shared this view with the
fundamentalists. Because, remember in the 1980s when the Pakistanis
were fighting this great Afghan jihad in collaboration with the
CIA, in Afghanistan, and General Zia-ul-Haq was in power for 11
straight years, right? And not ... a [murmur] of protest from
Washington all those years because he was doing their bidding.
During
that time, the whole concept of jihad was retooled by the CIA;
it was dusted out off the shelves. I mean, we hadn't heard of
it since the Crusades, of course, in the Islamic world. So it
was dusted out by the CIA and retooled for use by the very Gulbuddin
Hekmatyars and Osama bin Ladens and Ahmana Zawahiris who came
and coalesced around Afghanistan from all over the Muslim world.
Aided and abetted by the CIA, armed by the CIA and, of course,
organized by the Pakistan ISI [Inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan's
military intelligence agency] and the army.
And during that time there was a
lot of ... re-education of the Pakistan army, which had been broadly
secular before that, because it was a successor to the British
army, which had been a secular, colonial institution. It became
rapidly more Islamicized during the decade of the 1980s. So Musharraf
had to contend with that too.
The hope of the common people is
that we want a better life. We don't want to fight a thousand-year
war with India. We don't want to defy the international community
at a great cost to our security and our economy. We want to get
on with our lives. We want to be prosperous; we want to be happier;
we want to be more productive. I think [Musharraf] is being helped
by that sentiment. And I'm hopeful that this is the majority sentiment
in this country, and it will lead us to a better place in the
future.
Do
you think that there would be a power vacuum if President Musharraf
were to go tomorrow?
It would be a tragedy because Musharraf
is somebody who has tried to tread the reasonable path. ... In
this country, at home, he has tried to keep his hands clean as
far as internal politics are concerned ... . I have several issues
with what he has done and not done, but in the main he's well
intentioned. In the main he's pragmatic and reasonable. He's had
a lot of practice now with real politics and the international
community. And he has also parlayed with international leaders,
so he has grown into his job and he knows what to do and what
not to do, even though sometimes he takes his time over it. I
think it would be tragic for Pakistan if at this juncture he wasn't
there to lead us. I think he must lead us to the other side ...
to the safe side. And then he must-- must -- hand over to the
mainstream political parties.
Because,
really, the military has no business being in government. It must
go back to the barracks. It must carry on doing what it is supposed
to do and not meddle in public affairs. And civil society has
to be strengthened, and the mainstream political parties. Musharraf
should lead us to the safe side on the other side of the river.
And then let us get on with our own lives.
